SPEAKER_01 0:45

Looking back, I did not know that I was going through perimenopause around the age of 37 and 38. For some reason, Yolanda, I just could not get my thoughts together. I could not form simple sentences. I could not get up and perform like I used to. And there was a point in time where I was afraid that I was getting early onset dementia. Like I honestly thought I was getting early dementia.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Welcome to Wine, Wisdom, and What Now. I am your host, Yolanda Holiday, and I thank you for joining me today. We're going to kick off with our segment, The Pairing, where we feature a black-owned wine brand for our audience to try. It pairs well with this episode. This week, we're going to feature LVE, John Legend Chardonnay. It is a really smooth Chardonnay. It pairs well with this conversation that we're going to have. It has notes of honeysuckle and vanilla. If you have tried this or if you plan to try it, please leave us a comment and let us know what your thoughts are. Today's guest is Anita Lindell, affectionately known as Lil Bit, a woman whose journey through resilience, healing, and encouraging others really stood out to me. Her passion for helping people navigate mental health challenges and reminding them they're not alone makes her the perfect voice for today's episode. So today I welcome you, Miss Anita.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Thank you so much for having me, Miss Yolanda.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Thank you for joining us. I will say everybody I know with the nickname Lil Bit Lil Bit is quite a bit spicy.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I can be a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

No pun intended. Well, thank you for joining us. I must ask you, what are you sipping on today?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

You know, I'm sipping on water because at the moment I'm afraid to sip on anything else.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Understood, understood. I'm sure this is going to be a great conversation. Um I do again thank you for joining us. And I'm going to start this episode with asking you, what season of life are you currently navigating?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Perimenopause, and I have to say it's been a journey so far. It has taken me through so many twists, so many turns, so many loops to the point where there are days where I feel like I don't recognize myself, but I'm slowly working myself through it. I really, really am. Perimenopause, you know, I've been telling other people it's not for the week. Like I have wondered, I have learned the importance of like resilience and endurance through this phase.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Right, right. And I think the biggest thing, at least for me, is I don't feel like I was prepared for it. There was not enough conversation leading up to it.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

It was not. It was not. And it's funny that you mentioned that because when I was going through all these different emotions and changes, I actually went to my mom because I was like, Mom, like, what is this I'm going through? Have you ever, ever experienced this? And when I went to my mom and I was sharing some of my symptoms, she was like, you know, baby girl, she said, a lot of times when I would go to the doctor and I would explain some of the symptoms that you were going through, they had her thinking she was crazy. It was in her head, she was imagining things. So she said she suffered in silence. And I'm sitting here thinking to myself, how many other women like myself and so many others are suffering in silence because we did not know that this is perimenopause. But a lot of times the doctors they dismiss it. A lot of them don't do research on it, they don't check for it, and I think that needs to change.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Definitely, definitely. Because to go through all of those emotions, all of the just the different changes, and then to feel like it's just you, it does make you feel like maybe you are a little off.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Oh, it does. And I can kind of share with you some of my symptoms I experienced. Okay, so looking back, I did not know that I was going through perimenopause around the age of 37 and 38. And some of the symptoms that I was going through at that time was brain fog. For some reason, Yolanda, I just could not get my thoughts together. I could not form simple sentences. I could not get up and perform like I used to. And there was a point in time where I was afraid that I was getting early onset dementia. Like I honestly thought I was getting early dementia. Um, in addition to the brain fog, another thing that I was experiencing that I thought was weird because I thought it was neurological, was I was itching all over. Yes. And I could not understand what is going on. Like I thought bugs were crawling on me, spiders were crawling on me, I would hit myself, scratch myself, and it's like nothing is there. Looking back in hindsight, that was perimenopause. Right. And another thing that's new to me that I'm trying my best to navigate and work through is anxiety. I never had an issue with extreme anxiety until I enter perimenopause. Because I'll wake up scared and afraid for no apparent reason. There's nothing traumatic that's going on in my life, but I felt anxious all the time. And I'm still feeling anxious all the time.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah, yeah. There are so many symptoms. Like it's normally when there is something that someone goes through, these are your symptoms. But for perimenopause, it really depends on who you speak with to determine what they are experiencing. And I think that's maybe one of the reasons there's not a lot of conversation because people just don't know. And prior generations may have been quieter, they did not speak about it. So they were they were the medical field was able to get away with not providing accurate answers, not providing accurate care because people went away thinking, okay, maybe it's just me. And now the voice, our voices are being heard, and we're saying it's not just me, and I want to know more. I want to know what I can do. Um, I just I want to be able to explain it because when I show up and I'm not showing up as myself, I'm frustrated because I don't know why I'm not showing up as myself, but this is what you're getting today.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Absolutely. And I hate to bring race into it, but I feel like as a black woman in general, and I'm sure that so many other black women can agree with this, it's that a lot of times in healthcare, our complaints and our concerns, they're not taken seriously. We are often dismissed and so frustrating because you're going into this doctor's office or this clinic and you're trying to get help. You're explaining what's going on with you, but they're so quick to dismiss us as a whole because they think that we're making it up or that we want attention. And that's not the case. We simply want help, just like the next person.

unknown 7:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

And I don't think that's much to ask for for help for somebody to listen to us.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

And I don't even know if they think that it is something where we're just seeking attention because it's being received by other groups. The other groups are being heard. It's just in all areas, I feel like we are not represented. And the psychology behind that, we can go down many roads that I choose not to go down right now. But for us, it's that's why collectively we must make noise. Yes. Collectively, we must make noise.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Absolutely, absolutely, because perimenopause, it's something that it's not really looked at as a whole and as a general. And I am seeing that more and more research, thankfully, is starting to be focused on perimenopause so that they can address it early on, because so many women are suffering at silence, and we don't have to.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

We really don't.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

And a lot of that even goes to affecting our mental health. I know for me and so many other women that I spoke to, is that perimenopause it does play a huge role in not only anxiety, but depression. I've even talked with some women where they even had suicidal thoughts. And I'm sitting here thinking, this is something serious that we have so many women out here by battling and fighting through perimenopause, feeling like they're alone and seeing that there's no way out. And I think that's the part that hurts me the most is that so many women they give up. They don't have anything to look forward to because so many are being dismissed.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah, they're not heard. And I think that what comes with that is we just think about the hot flashes, the the symptoms overall, but what about everything else that comes with it? Because usually during this season, there's a lot of shifting, whether it's kids going off and now you're in an empty nest, you're no longer satisfied with your career, so you're doing handling all of that or battling all of that on top of all these other symptoms that no one can really explain.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think the biggest symptoms that I think so many women that I've pretty much been talking to lately since I've been on this periodopause journey is the heart palpitations. That has been so scary for me. I did not realize, because I thought it was just me, how many other women were calling 911 because they're waking up at 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning. Their heart is beating out their chest. And just like me, so many felt like, okay, I'm about to die. I don't know if this is a heart attack, I'm about to have a stroke, because those heart palpitations, they get out of control where if you do feel like you're dying. I know when it first happened to me, because I ended up calling an ambulance and they came and took me to the hospital because I couldn't get my heart rate down. I honestly thought I was having a heart attack. And then when I get to the doctor's office, like so many others, you know, they do all this blood work, they run all these different tests, and they come back and say you're perfectly normal. There's nothing wrong with you. We think you had an eye an anxiety attack or a panic attack. And I don't know, that could have been it. Mary Per, maybe perimenopause can cause anxiety attacks and panic attacks. I'm still trying to look into that. I don't know, but I've never experienced that ever. And so many women, they talk about that. It's like we missed the time when we were able to actually fall asleep and sleep all the way through the night.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Right, because those 2 a.m., 3 a.m. wakeups, they're not fun at all. Because then you are expected to go to work and perform as if you got a good night's sleep, but you really just want to say, I can't sleep at night. Perimenopause is on my back and I'm tired. But it's not understood.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

It's not, it's really not. And those sleep disturbances, they can actually really, really get to you because I started looking into something, I want to say about two or three days ago, because I was wondering, I'm like, okay, one, why am I waking up randomly at two or three o'clock in the morning and I'm anxious for no reason? I'm like, there has to be something causing that, there has to be a name for it. And when I was researching and looking into this, I stumbled across something called somniphobia. And I never ever heard of that word before. And so when I started looking into it, that is one of the things that actually affects a lot of women who are currently in perimenopause and menopause. And somniphobia is basically an anxiety of or an anxiety about going to sleep and staying asleep. And it develops in a lot of women who are worried about falling asleep, staying asleep, and not waking up. So we begin to develop this anxiety to the point of now we're afraid to go to sleep because we don't know if we're going to go to sleep. And then on the other side of that, some of us are actually afraid to go to sleep because we're thinking we're not, we think we're not going to wake up.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah. Yeah. That that is, I've never heard that word, but I can relate about the anxiety of anxiety of before I go to sleep. It's always, I pray that I at least get five hours of sleep. Like please don't let me wake up in the next hour. And so I'm anxious about that going into sleep that night. So that usually doesn't help. No, it doesn't. It really doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

You try so many different things to try to use yourself to sleep. And uh a couple of things that I've been doing that has been helping a little bit is just trying to sip on a little bit of caffeine-free tea before I go to bed. That way I can kind of calm my mind, my heart, my spirit to the point where I'm a little less anxious. And then another thing that I've actually been doing that has been helping a little bit was I'll actually go on YouTube and I will search for like music to help calm the heart, music to help ease anxiety, and that actually has been helping me fall asleep and stay asleep so far for the most part, these last couple of years.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

That was a good advice. That's good advice.

unknown 13:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

In addition to that, are you doing any other like hormone replacement therapy or mindfulness or anything else or that you are doing that could be helping you in this season?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

You know, I'm so glad you asked that because one of the things that I'm looking into is hormone replacement therapy. Because I am I'm trying my best to navigate through this the best way I can on my own, but I have to be humble enough to realize that I can't do this on my own and I need help. So hormone replacement therapy is definitely something I'm looking into and very interested.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I will let you know that I have been, I've done the estrogen hormone replacement therapy for about a year now. It has been life-saving. Like when I say it doesn't treat everything because there are still some sleepless nights, but not many. Um, it I don't I I experience minimal uh symptoms when it comes to perimenopause at this stage. Wow. And I know everyone can't take it, so it's not an answer for everyone. So there are some non-hormonal, hormonal um things that people are doing, but for me, it has and it was instant. It was I went to the doctor uh on day one. By day two, I no longer had the night sweats. Or, you know, I didn't feel as irritable in that moment. So it it has been a saving grace for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Oh my gosh, I can't wait because I really I really want to be able to experience that and feel like I'm getting back to my old self. Um, you know, when you asked me earlier, what am I sipping on? And I said water, and it's like, man, I wish I could have said coffee or wine because before I enter perimenopause, I could drink coffee with no problem, wine with no problem. But whenever I drink coffee and wine or any type of alcohol, I experience heart palpitations. My heart races and beats out of control. And then it triggers anxiety. And I'm sitting here thinking, perimenopause is really kicking my butt right now, and I want to be able to, I want to be able to sip on some coffee like I used to and sip on some wine because I really, really miss that.

unknown 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

So hormone replacement therapy, I think, is the way that I'm gonna have to go.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

I would love to hear your experience once you started, just to see if it works for you. I would love to hear that. So when we go through this, sometimes we're thinking it's you know us going through it, but oftentimes we hear from our family members that they're also affected by it. So, how has this affected any close relationships that you have?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Wow, that's a great question. So unfortunately, it has affected some of my close relationships to the point where some people honestly don't want to be around me some days. Because sometimes, if I'm gonna be completely honest with you, I I'm not always a pleasant person to be around. Some days my hormones can just be raging and I feel like I'm about to lose my mind to the point where it is best to be by myself. And so that's something that I really want to work on because I don't ever want people to not want to be around me because I'm severely depressed that day, or um, on a tangent and I'm snapping on everybody. Nobody wants to be around anybody like that. So great question. Yes, it has affected my relationships to the point where sometimes sometimes people just have told me you're not a pleasant person to be around. And I and I respect them for telling me that. So that's something I have to work on.

unknown 18:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

And do you at the in those moments um try to explain what it is you're feeling or going through so that they can look at it from a different lens as well?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yes, I do. And anytime I lose my temper or I lash out, I'm always quick to apologize and let them know that it's not you, it's me. And I'm working on it. And thankfully, and I'm so grateful to all of them that they're understanding enough to where they they completely understand where I'm going through. But they did tell me you need to hurry up and get yourself fixed. Because we don't know how long we can continue to go through this. So it's like I gotta hurry up and do something, ASAP.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Understood, understood. I will say that that is um it's just a challenging season, and that's why, again, I say collectively, having these conversations, participating in events that's focused around it. It it in my hopes, it makes it a little easier to cope. It's not going to take it away, but at least one, you know you're not alone, and two, you never know what you'll pick up from someone else, like sipping on the tea before going to bed. That may help someone else just to hear that. So that is why these conversations are so important.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Thank you. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah, and then telling the generation that's behind us, you know, as much as we can to prepare them for this. So if you had to go back and tell your younger self something that prepared you for this, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Oh wow. I would definitely, if I could go back and prepare my younger self, just recognizing that okay, you're around the age where your hormones shift and that they change. And so this new person that you don't completely recognize at this moment or at this season in life, you're not crazy. It's your hormones. Because looking back, I honestly thought I was going crazy, and I thought it was only me. And I'm not going crazy, but at the time I thought I was. So being able to go back and re-educate myself and let myself know that you know what, Anita, your your body's changing. This is unfortunately a normal occurrence that happens as you age, but now you have to try to work through it the best way possible. And since I've been going through all of these different types of perimenopausal changes, I've even I've even been educating some of my younger cousins and nieces and letting them know what to look forward to. So that way they're not scrambling through life trying to figure out what in the world is wrong with me. Because if you know what you're going through and what's coming at you, you can better prepare for it.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Right. And at your age, to start experiencing it at 37, most people think 40s, mid 40s, late 40s, just to experience it at 37, I think isolates you just a little more because most 37-year-olds at my age, most of us are experiencing it now. But at 37, most 37-year-olds are not experiencing it. So it's almost like your peer group is not even support in that moment because they don't understand it.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

And I'm so glad you mentioned that, Yolanda, because I would go to the doctors around that time when I was like 37 through 30, 37 and 38, and they would actually tell me, you're too young to be experiencing that. You're everything that you're going through, it's either in your head, it's in your mind, it could be stress related. And finally, I think I was like 38, going on 39. And I asked my doctor, I said, Can you please do a thorough blood test? I want you to check everything. I don't care how many tests you have to run, but please check them, run them. And it was only then that they actually took the time to really sit down and look at it and say, hmm, you know, your hormones, they do look like they're a little bit imbalanced, but it's nothing that you need to worry about at this time. And looking back, I'm sitting here thinking, they knew I was going to be perimenopause at the time. They just didn't want to tell me. Because when I actually went to the doctor not too long ago and I had them run my blood work to check all the hormones again, and look back at that past paperwork, and I'm looking at them, and I'm sitting here thinking, aha. I was perimenopausal then, but nobody told me. And maybe those doctors, I guess in their defense, because I like to try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, maybe they didn't really know that much about perimenopause, and they were afraid to say that, oh, you're perimenopausal.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yes, yes, yes. I have a um a doctor that we work with when doing different events, and one of the things she mentioned is in medical school, when it comes to um gynecology and just areas the the female uh reproductive system, they they learn about pregnancies, they learn about um um adolescent years, but there's not a lot of conversation around menopause, perimenopause. That it she said it may be a lesson or two, and then they move on to something else. So there's just not enough focus given to it. And when you think about it, who usually puts that material together? White men. They don't have the experience, so for them it's insignificant and they just move past it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

And and it's hard, and especially if you're dealing with Another symptom trying to navigate through perimenopause. So, not to deviate from the topic, but I have picos, polycystic ovarian syndrome. And I learned that women who have picos, whenever they enter perimenopause, perimenopause affects them negatively three times worse than it does other women because our hormones are already and balanced, already dealing with picos. And then you add perimenopause to the mix and it just compounds it even worse.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

So much, so much to be a woman. Yes, it really is. We go through so much. We do, we do, and we're expected to do it with a smile on our face and still show up for everyone else.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

So what has this experience taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 24:37

You know, I think that it's really taught me that I'm a lot stronger than I think I am. And that I'm able to endure a lot of things that I did not necessarily think that I could endure. There was a part of me for so long that felt like I was not a very strong person. But looking at how I have navigated through perimenopause these last couple of years and trying to encourage other people to let them know that, hey, you're gonna get through this. I know this is just a rough patch in the season, but it's not the end of the row for you. We got this. So I would say that perimenopause for me has really taught me that you know what, Anita, you're not as weak as you think you are. Because if you were, you would have given up a long time ago. And I have so much to live for. And yeah, perimenopause, it's it's kicking my butt a lot, I'm not gonna lie. But I feel like I'm too stubborn to give up at this point because I've been through so much. Perimenopause has really battered my body in so many different ways. And the fact that I'm still here standing talking with you today, I'm just very proud of myself that I did not give up. Because there was a important time where I thought I would have.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yeah, I'm so glad that you did not give up and you're able to share your story with so many who need to hear it because they're not hearing it in other places.

unknown 26:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Well, thank you for allowing me that opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

You are so welcome. So I have one more question for you, and that is the what now. So you know what it is, and you're experiencing it and doing the best that you can do, but what are you looking forward to?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

I'm definitely looking forward to treating my symptoms so that I can be the best person that I possibly can. Um, definitely looking to repair some of my relationships. Thank goodness it's not damaged, and thank goodness that everybody around me has been accepting not only of my craziness, but uh understanding that I'm trying to work through it. But in addition to that, is wanting to educate other women to let them know that they're not alone and that there's help out there and that there's support, and that you don't have to suffer through this through silence. So just trying to advocate more about perimenopause and spreading the awareness of it is my biggest goal right now. Because I would hate for so many other women to suffer through life alone, thinking that there's no resources out there or that there's no help.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

That is much needed. I'm there is going to be at least one person who hears this and they're going to be encouraged by it. One, they're going to understand that they are not alone and hopefully have hope to keep pushing through knowing that they are not alone and that there is going to be another side to this. It's just a season that we're going through, but there is going to be another side to this, and you don't have to suffer through it. There are options, whether it's hormone replacement therapy or something else. If you're not being heard by your doctor, you should reach out and find someone else, someone who can actually listen to you and will provide you the support and advice that you need.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Absolutely. And I'm so glad you mentioned that, Yolanda, is the fact that you mentioned finding a good doctor that will listen to you. Because sometimes, as in my case, I had to go through three or four different doctors before I actually found the one that will listen to me. So thank you so much for mentioning that because some women may think that, oh, I've talked to this doctor, they don't listen to me. So I guess it must be all in my head. No, like you said, no searching until you find that doctor that's gonna listen to you. Right, make a whole difference.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Right. I will only go to doctors that look like me. So I've been fortunate enough to have doctors that listen to me and actually care. Can I find a black woman doctor in every field? Probably I have not been able to, but for all the main areas, I I have been blessed that I have black women doctors who experience what I experience and can relate to me and want to support me and give me proper medical care.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Thank you. Well, thank you for joining me today. I knew it would be a great conversation. You did not disappoint. I appreciate you for coming, sharing, being vulnerable, and just letting everyone know that they are not alone.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Alonda.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

This has been an amazing conversation, and I invite you to continue the conversation with us in our Facebook group. The Facebook group is the curated living circle. If you search that in Facebook, you will find it, answer the questions, and we will gladly accept you in. In addition, I want to remind you about our segment called In Her Season. In her season is the segment where we take your questions and we sit down and we discuss them with a trusted professional. To submit a question, please email in her season at winewisdom whatnow.com. We are also on Instagram at winewisdom in what now. I would like for you to communicate with us outside of these conversations. If you have any questions, please send them to questions at winewisdom what now dot com. Until we meet again, I hope that you have an amazing week.