SPEAKER_00 0:45

The things that I was used to doing that was normal, that was simple, that I could do with my eyes closed, I couldn't do those things. And I didn't really know why. That put me in a little bit of a dark space. And you have to take a pause. Taking a pause doesn't mean stopping. I would say it's taking inventory of what's going on around you.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I thank you for joining me. If this is your first time, welcome. If you've been here before, I applaud you. I thank you for coming back and sharing these moments with me. As always, we're going to kick it off with the pairing, which is our segment where we introduce you to a black-owned wine brand. It is important that we support our black-owned wine brands. I love wine, and when I look around at anything that I'm supporting, I always look for us. And when I see a low representation of us, I always ask why. And that is one of the toughest industries for a black-owned brand, so I feel it's important that we identify them so that we know who we are supporting. Today's brand is a Moscato. It is Love Y'all Moscato Wine, and it is by Tabitha Brown. This is her wine brand. It is produced in Germany and it is sold only at Target. This wine has notes of white peach and honeysuckle with the aroma of orange blossoms. If you are into sweet wine, this would be a really good one for you. I know everyone's palate is different. I prefer wines that are not too sweet, but for a sweet wine drinker, I think this would be a really great wine for you. Today's guest is Pamela Howard. And Pamela is an entrepreneur, event strategist, wife, mother, and grandmother who knows firsthand that life doesn't always go according to plan. As the founder of Pamela Plans and Consulting Firm, and co-founder of Howard and Howard Event Management and Catering, she spent decades helping others bring their vision to life. In this season, Pamela is embracing change, rediscovering herself, and reminding us that sometimes the most beautiful beginnings come after an unexpected pivot. So for today's episode, we welcome Pamela Howard. Welcome, Pamela.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here on this platform with you.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

We are excited to have you and hear your experience and all that you have to share with us. And I am going to get us started by asking you what season of life are you currently navigating?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

So there's a lot that I'm navigating in this season. And first and foremost, I would say empty nesting, uh downsizing, uh new grandmother, uh menopause. Yeah. Yeah. That that that right there was probably the uh first thing that triggered everything else.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Right. That one is so powering that it takes over everything else and guides how you are handling everything else. Yes, absolutely. How long have you been on your menopause journey? Year two. Year two, okay. All right, and what was it that made you realize that you were on this journey?

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Well, first, um, I noticed three years prior, my cycle was really just really sporadic. And then it was like a whole year and then one month. And then it was like another year and maybe a day until it was just no more, which was quite great. I mean, that was good to be done with that, but everything else, whoo, I mean, I've had to experience things that I didn't even really think I would experience. Brain fog. That actually cost me some money.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I don't think I realize that's not going through it, how that's a real thing. Brain fog is a real thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

It it is. And I was sitting here, I was talking to my doctor, and I was just like, I'm not, I'm forgetting crazy things, like simple things. I can't even like, what is this? And she was just like, brain fog. Brain fog. Like you can only your brain has a capacity right now of just so much. And she was like, that's just what it is. Then I had frozen shoulder. Yes, this affects your joint. It ain't always arthritis. So I'm like, okay, what is going on? Like, what is going on wrong? I mean, it's better now. Okay, but I couldn't lift my arm, it was feeling numb, and it was all in my shoulder. And I went to the doctor again, and she's like, it's frozen shoulder. She said, You are really having some issues with this menopause. And I was just like, Frozen, so who knew? I didn't even know that was such a thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

I didn't either. I hear, and thankfully I haven't experienced it, but I hear so many women speak about it. And one thing I noticed about this perimenopause, menopause journey is there's no guide book. No one discussed this. There was nothing like, you know, if you get the flu, these are gonna be the symptoms. You know, if you get whatever ailment it is, these are the symptoms. But this is all I think I'm crazy, then I find that I'm not crazy because it's menopause. I'm perimenopause.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah, yeah. So it is tough. Yeah. The perimenopause part, I think the worst thing about that was the night sweat. Like I just I would wake up sometimes drenched and was like, what is this? Uh it was so bad one time. I just I had to like just get up out of the bed from my husband, because I was just like, I was just burning up. I've even had to get up and take a shower and go back to bed.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Like it is a real thing. And for you, um, so are you full menopause now or are you still in peri? Um no, I'm full menopause. Full menopause now. Um, when you do you still experience the symptoms in full menopause?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Just maybe some of the night swears, they're not as frequent. Um, it's not as frequent it was. I mean, I remember I was with my daughters. We was um at the airport, we was on our way to New Haven, Connecticut, and I was in the line, and I this was during my pre-menopause, and I was just like, oh my God, oh my god, here it comes. I was like about to freak out. And my daughter, come save the day, had this fan in her purse, and she was like, I am ordering you one right now from I got this from Walmart online. I'm ordering you one right now. When we get back to North Carolina, you're gonna have this fan so you can keep it in your purse.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I don't know what I would have done if she hadn't had that fan. Right. That is um, did you have any like, did you do hormone replacement therapy or any um natural remedies to try to alleviate some of the symptoms?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

I the only I did do, I didn't do any type of supplements, medicines, or anything like that. I really focused on um therapy through um uh therapy exercises. There is a such thing as certain therapy exercises, some that will help that you do right before you go to bed, some when that you do when you wake up. And I really focused on just pacing myself through the way. I had to really get intentional about when it was time to go to bed. And I would do these therapy exercises before I went to bed. Um, I had my fan right there just in case I needed it at night. And I would listen to calming things that would just put me in this state of relaxation. And then when I would wake up, you know, normally when you wake up, we wake up, I pray, and then I get up and I start my day. Well, yeah, I still continue to pray, but I didn't just get up and just start my day. I mean, I got up, I really took my time. I mean, when you talk about being intentional, I took my time, got up, did my morning stretches, I listened to calming things. I really had to be intentional about putting myself in this state. And all these things really helped minimize my symptoms so that when I start my day, and I actually had to take a break from work. I really, really did because you know, as an event planning strategist, planning anything, you have to be so detail-oriented and so focused, and I literally had to take a break from that because I couldn't multitask and I couldn't, I didn't understand why. Right, like I just couldn't, and I mean I had to turn down things or just push things back, and I took one thing and I probably shouldn't have taken it, but I did take it, and unfortunately, nobody wants to have in a disaster, but it it I ain't gonna say it was a disaster, but it I wasn't pleased.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

It wasn't grievous leave, right? And I think even in the workforce, no matter where you work, that we have um maternity leave and um bereavement, but there is it's almost like no one believes that menopause is a real thing. And I feel it's because generations before us, they kept it to themselves. It's just something they had to deal with. And now we're as we're exploring and figuring it out and identifying things. I find there's more women that are speaking on it, and then hopefully the people that are making decisions will realize how important this is, how it does affect their wife, mother, sister, daughter, and make decisions that will benefit all because we put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect, and menopause is usually one up, it's not something that we can actually control. Right. And I didn't know they had therapy. Like, how did you find it? And if someone wanted to find, like you said some good things like about being intentional, how did you find that and where can someone go to find that?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

So there's actually an app called Hinge. It's the Hinge app, and there's oh there's so many articles on there about menopause, so many therapeutic things. Um, it's a it's the app is free, but the services you do have to get qualified through your insurance for it. And that's how I found it. Um I was just researching menopause, and an article came up and it was connected to Hinge App. And I downloaded it and asked for my insurance, put it in and said, Did you qualify? So, and within this hinge app, you also have like um it does more than just menopause, of course, the hinge app. I mean, it's any type of wellness for yourself. Um, I've even had to use it as I rehab my shoulder because I had to get an injection for that just so I could begin to move it to rehab it. But um, there are actually um live therapists on there that you can consult with. Uh, if you have a problem, if you need to, I mean, I've had to change my diet as well to help with that. Some of the things that there are foods that actually trigger your menopause. I learned that. And so I had to stop eating some of those things or learn to eat them a different way. And so there's a nutritionist there that actually guides you with everything, and it's not like a fear, something that comes out. I don't I looked at my insurance statement, it really wasn't constant. I'm not quite sure where it comes, I think it comes from the therapist. If you talk with the therapist, but okay. That's that's basically how I learned about being intentional with my therapy, um, waking up, going to bed, even throughout the day. Things that I can do if I feel it coming on, or or if I something mood swings, everything. But yeah, Hinge App is a really good app, and uh, I will say this to those that are listening. Um, the um Hinge App, what made me stick with it was that they gave me incentives if I would go to the next step and things that I was doing. So I got a lot of free things. I even got this enzo. Um, it's uh because I have back pain. And I got this free enzo for my back pain. Those things are expensive. Um and so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

That is a good recommendation. Again, I wasn't aware of it. I started perimetopause probably at 49, so it's been a year and some change. And I immediately knew I did not want the symptoms. The night sweat was, I would wake up and have to change the sheets. I didn't have many symptoms. As soon as it hit, I was at the doctor saying, What can we do? Hormone replacement therapy. And I immediately started taking hormone replacement therapy. I had um, I have had no issues. It was an immediate effect, like I no longer was having the night sweat. Um, I I didn't experience the frozen shoulder, even the moose wings. I bypassed all of that, I think, because I started hormone replacement therapy so early, but I do know that it's not for everyone, that not everyone can do hormone replacement therapy. So people are often looking for what's an alternative, and what you found and what you're sharing, I think is a really, really good alternative because we know as we get older we do need to change our diet, but we don't know that I didn't know that it directly affects your menopause symptoms. So we're just learning, and we're all learning and and sharing with each other, I think is what's really important and not keeping it hush-hush like we're embarrassed about it and we can't tell you we're very menopause.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Exactly. Yeah, I was speaking with um one of my older cousins, um, she's uh pushing 60, and I learned something from her and actually went and looked it up, and she's act exactly right. And I was just like, you know, when you get into full menopause, people think it goes away, and it doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't go away, it just gets easier to live with.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

And I think for us, specifically the target audience of this podcast, black women over 40, we don't know what to expect when we get to menopause because most of us are just figuring out Perry at this point. We haven't even thought about menopause, but it's almost like it can't get any worse than it. So, what is that going to look like?

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah, I will say this being that I've already gone through the paramenopause, and I'll add this quick note in if you are a black female who has had any type of gynecological surgery, it will it can hit you early, like before 40. Yeah. So I started in a one late 30s.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I was about to say, I had an event, and one of the doctors said that you can actually start perimenopause at 38, and it can go for 10, 12 years, and yes, you don't even because no one talks about it, and you're thinking so you really do think you're crazy, or something is wrong. You're 38 and you're experiencing this.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah, so I I started very early, and I was in full menopause by the time I turned 50. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

All right. On this journey, between your medical care, your family, did you feel supported?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Oh, absolutely. I did. Um my husband is he just whatever. What can I do? What can I do to help? What can I do? Is this better? Is this okay? Like he was so supportive. And you know, I told you about with my daughter, you know, things. They were very supportive. And I'm gonna tell you something else that kind of helped me because you know, this pair menopause, it actually triggered some depression. I can see, I can see that. Because, you know, you just think about it, you know. I know I well, I speak for myself, you know, I'm so independent, and I am always have my hands in something. I'm gonna, you know, be seen, not be in vain, but you know, I'm just gonna be out there, and all of that just kind of came to a stop under not under my control. Right. Like I couldn't control it. And the things that I was used to doing that was normal, that was simple, that I could do with my eyes closed, I couldn't do those things. And I didn't really know why. I and yeah, that put me in a little bit of a dark space for a little while.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

It's change, change that we are not controlling and that we don't understand. So I definitely can see that, and I hear a lot of women speak about it. That, you know, it does put them, and one, it's you're getting older. Um so at this point, uh am I going to not be able to do the things that I used to do? And that's not what it means. It just means that we have to figure out ways to get through this season to remain healthy, whether it's working out, changing your diet, whatever that looks like, because there's still so much life ahead that this is just a period right now.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

I'm glad to hear that you were supported because oftentimes you also hear that um people don't understand. I've actually spoken with a gentleman who was telling me about his girlfriend. Um and they were together for 10 years, and she started going through perimetopause, and he was so frustrated that she could not explain to him. Like her mood would swing and she'd be happy, and then she'll just be yelling. And he was frustrated that she could not explain to him what she was going through. And my question to him was imagine her frustration that she herself don't know what she's going through. So a lot of the time it's educating and making sure that we have empathetic people around us that realize, well, this is not the person who you are. This is something must be going on, and they're working with us to figure out what that is that's going on.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, I definitely had had the support. And you know, in this season, uh on a on a very happy note, becoming a grandmother, uh that right there, congratulations that really, really like was the bright, the highlight of my day. You know, I I didn't care how I was feeling that day. When I saw them faces, it was all done. How many grandfathers? I have two.

unknown 22:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Boy, girl, how old? Both girls. Um, Harmony. I wish I had a picture I could show you. Uh Harmony, she's um she'll be two in November. And then Melody, her younger sister. She is uh actually she's eight months today, the 11th. Okay, well, happy birthday to her. Uh-huh. What do they call what will they call you? They call me Nana. Nana. Okay, all right. Yeah, and Nana calls them my puddings. Oh, that's sweet. Well, that Nana's puddings.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

So I have to ask you this because I am a TikTok TikTok fanatic. I'm always on TikTok. Um there's currently a debate on TikTok, and it's between grandmothers and their and their daughters. And it is the expectation of the of the younger generation that grandmothers are going to stay at home and they're going to take care of the kids whenever needed. Like if I need you this weekend, you're there. If I need you next week, you're there. And then I find that women in our generation were trying to balance that I poured it to everyone else, I'm now pouring it to me. I'm not a grandmother, so I don't have this challenge, but a lot of grandmothers do have this challenge. What are your thoughts on that debate of you should always be there when needed as Nana?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Well, based on my experience, I really don't have that challenge. Um, my son is the oldest of all my children, and so these are my Son's children. And so his fiance, um, you know, she's just so excited about being a mom for the first time. She's just caught up in that. She she always wants to be around her children. Um, I don't have to fight for them, like I don't have to be like I, you know, fight for them, but there's a happy meeting. They know that I'm there if they need me. And they respect the fact that um I'm still a working grandmother, and I'm still a very active grandmother, and they do respect my time. Um, they do ask, you know, but they're very mindful. That that's important.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

I think that's what is most important when it comes to that situation. I don't think there's a right or a wrong because I think that as people, as women, we have to do what is best for our current situation, such as being a working grandmother. But I was just curious on what others thought. My personal opinion on it is I'm going, I'm not one yet, but when I am one, I'm going to be a very active, involved grandmother. But you cannot dictate my time and tell me I have to always be available. There has to be a balance, a respect of boundaries. So I'm going to, I always show up, so I'm going to show up, but you will not dictate my time and say I have to be there every first and second Saturday of the month because I might want to go on vacation because I've raised mine.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Right. Yes. Okay. I I we uh my husband and I we are empty nesters, so yeah. How's that going for you? Well, I for me, I've been waiting. I used to tell my husband, I said, I can't wait till I can have you to myself. I just I just I just I don't want to it it, you know, and it's an adjustment because you know, when you're used, like I'm that mom that I don't really cook through the week, especially when my children became, you know, older teenagers. But on Sundays, Mama throw down, you better get here, you know, you better be there, and they're happy to be there. And so now that you know they're in their separate places, and it's just he and I, it was an adjustment because I was buying so much stuff, my husband's like, we ain't got nowhere to put all this stuff. And I was like, Oh, yes, just us. And so, you know, instead of me getting up and you know, fixing a big pot of grits and you know, doing all this, I I buy instant, you know, take a pack out, have me a instant oatmeal and you know, fix it the way I want. So things that, you know, that's a big difference too, you know. Going to the store, I don't need to get this big family pack of food. You know, I can just get a couple of steaks or a few good little bit of lamb chops or whatever, and it's just us, you know. Right. My microwave and my air fryer are my best friend. I love the air fryer. Definitely love the air fryer.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yes. I think a lot of um women, myself included, I'm an empty nester. We are excited about the day that we become empty nesters. But speaking for myself, I wasn't ready. Like, I wanted it, I was excited about it, and then it happened, and then I stopped. And for me, I was, what do I do now? Like, I just really I've spent something important to you. What do I do now for me? So I had to almost relearn myself again. Like, what brings me joy without having to do for others? Did you experience that?

SPEAKER_00 27:11

It's funny that you said that because I know my husband and I, we was, you know, I I came to that clue. I said, you know what? I see, think about it. I said, we're have we have for so many years, for 19 years, we have positioned everything that we do around our kids, their schedules, and what they do. And now that we don't have to do that, I say we have to figure out like what it's gonna look like for just us. And so my husband, he came up with this thing every Friday, is Friday night date night. And so throughout the week, we look forward to that Friday night and you know, go and splurge overly spurge. But it was just us, you know, we having to pay like a 200-something bill for five people, you know, it's just us now. Yeah, so you know, we definitely um look forward to that. And then, you know, on the weekends, you know, just just this past weekend, he had a relative that turned 50, and we had to go out of town. And when we got there, he was like, This is nice. We did we didn't have to like check in with nobody, you know, make sure nobody was okay. We just got up and left and drove down and got us an Airbnb, enjoyed ourselves and came back. Like he was like, Yeah, we can do more of this. It is an exciting time.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

What do you end the season? Because now you truly are you're gonna always worry about your kids and they're gonna always be kids. But now it's just you and your husband. What are you most excited about?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Just really coming home and and not having to tell somebody to clean up, wash the dishes. You've been here all day, you know, when you're going to work, back. Oh Lord, I just come home, it's just me, my husband, and my dog waffles. That's it. Sounds peaceful.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Sounds so peaceful. Um, there are there are women that's possibly listening that going through the same seasons, empty nests, perimenopause, menopause, and they're struggling, like they're really, really struggling with it. What word or message do you have for them to help them get through this season?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I would say they have to take you have to take a pause. And taking a pause doesn't mean stopping. Um, I would say it's more of like just stopping and just you know, taking inventory of what's going on around you. And, you know, that prayer, the serenity prayer, has been something that I have recited in my head so many times during this time. You know, give me the strength to change what I can change and accept that that I can't. Because if I can't change it, why am I putting myself through more stress than I can't even change it? Just, you know, move forward and just take that pause and take inventory. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

That's very good advice because I know a lot of times we feel like it's just us. No one understands what I'm going through, especially if you don't have that community where you can show up and be your true transparent self and they're showing up. So you think I must be going crazy because I'm the only one having these bad mood swings, these perimetopauses is the worst for me. And there's no there's no end to this. When actually there is eventually going to be an end, but there is things that you can do in the journey that lightens it up for you just a tad bit, whether it's hormone replacement therapy, whether it's some type of other therapy, changing your meal or your diet and exercising, whatever that is, just be proactive in your own self-care to get you to a better place. And when it comes to empty nests, like take a pause and figure out. We have been pouring so much into our children 18 plus years that it's only normal that that's all we really know, no matter how excited we were going to be when they finally left the nest. But it's we're human. After a while, you realize I was so looking for it to this day, but now what? And it's okay to ask yourself that. Just be honest with yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Absolutely. So self-care is my best friend. Yes, every day. What does health care look like for you? Um, self-care for me, there are some mornings, especially if I'm having one of them mornings where I'm just like, you know what, this is not the day. I get up, rub me a big old tub of bubble bath, some Epsom salts, and light up my candles, turn on something soft, and I'm just chilling. Taking care of it. I will do that no matter what day it is. It doesn't have to be in the morning, it doesn't have to be before I go to bed, it can be in the middle of the day. That is my happy place when I need to woo-saw and just come back. Right. So because I don't always I can't always just go and have a massage or and sometimes I just don't want to be out in public, you know. I want to just collect myself. That's the way I collect myself.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

This has been a very good conversation, and you have so much going on that someone can make benefit from. I know you have events and different things you're working on. If someone was looking to get in touch with you, how do they get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00 32:53

So you can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. Um, I have a Twitter account, but I'm not on there as much. But it's at PHowett Clans or Pamela Plans. And um you can always go to my website, which is um PamelaPlans.com. Okay. I I appreciate you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

It has been an amazing conversation. Um I feel like it's going to benefit so many people in so many areas because we didn't just talk about one thing, we talked about a lot of things that's affecting us, affecting black women, that I feel it was a lot of nuggets given that people can walk away from and say, okay, I'm gonna try to apply this, or I needed to hear that. It was some really, really good information. So for that, I thank you for showing up and sharing your lived experience. Of course, of course, thank you. And if you have any questions that you want to send in, you can email me at questions at winewisdom whatnow.com. In our future episode, we will have our in her season segment, and that is where your emails will be read to a professional who will then provide answers that we'll play on future episodes. That email address is in her season at winewisdom whatnow.com. The questions will be directed towards a financial expert if you have retirement questions or financial planning, or a licensed nurse practitioner if you have perimenopause menopause questions. She's very familiar with the show. She provides true, transparent answers. So any of those questions, we can read them on the show anonymously and provide her answer. I ask that you like, follow, share this episode. We're on all the platforms. So whatever platform you prefer, please like, follow, share. And if you really, really want to support, go to others like, follow, and share. And let your friends, your sisters, cousins, mothers, nieces, daughters know that we are here, we are building a community, and this is this is for us. This podcast is released every Tuesday at 6 a.m. There is a new episode released. If you would like to know what the episode is about, little tidbits of what's happening at Curated Living or with the podcast Wine Wisdom and What Now, sign up for our newsletter. You can sign up for our newsletter on our website at winewisdom whatnow.com. Again, I thank you for joining us. I appreciate you if no one has told you you are amazing, and I hope you have the most amazing week ever. Thank you. Thank you.