SPEAKER_03 0:45

I felt heavy as the days would go on, and it just feels like somebody would just stand one elephant on me a day, and after 60 days, I can't move, I can't breathe, and I felt like that was the only way to have peace, to be able to breathe again, is to remove myself from the situation.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

I am your host, Yolanda Holliday, and I thank you for joining. I so appreciate you. If this is your first time, welcome. This is a podcast for us everyday lived experiences of the black woman over 40. And if you have been here before, thank you for coming back. I appreciate you. Before we pour, I want to talk about a podcast that I am such a huge fan of. It is Poor Minds with Lex P. Andrea. Absolutely love those two ladies and how they are killing it in the game right now. Recently I listened because I'm a listener, I listen in the car on the way to work or if I'm taking a road trip. But recently I listened to their episode with Savannah James and her business partner, April. I don't recall April's last name, but it's Savannah James and April. And I, listening to it, was so inspired. I was so proud. Four successful black women coming together to share, have genuine conversation. And no, we all have different experiences and we all feel differently about different topics. So they weren't getting along just to get along, agreeing with everything. Everyone shared their experience, and it was respectful. They were mature enough to come together and be able to say, hey, that's not for me, but it's okay. So there were a couple of times when April came across as a little more conservative, nothing wrong with that. And I felt like it was just her opinion. We are all very different. We all have our own opinion on things. Some feel like the way you dress is an invitation for unwanted attention. Others feel like I should dress no matter how I feel. I'm gonna get the attention anyways. I'm gonna put on what I want to put on. And that was one of the conversations. I enjoyed it. I tell everyone, I am so addicted to TikTok. Before I go to sleep, I'm on TikTok. And I was disheartened to see all of the negative comments about something I walked away with with such a positive feeling. And I don't understand why it is as black women we feel the need to tear each other down. April did have a different opinion than the other women on the podcast, but she's entitled to her opinion. And just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong. And sometimes we feed and look into things so much because we want to find something negative, toxic, bad to say that we reach. So again, I listen, but I kept hearing about her body language and how she kept turning her back on Drea. So I wanted to see what everyone else was talking about. Because maybe I missed it. Just from sound, it sounded like they were all getting along. It sounded like it was a great conversation. So I went and I watched it again on YouTube. That's some BS that's being spilled out there because the way the narrative is is that she was just rude and short and disregarded Drea by turning her back to her. If you actually look at it, they're sitting in individual seats. There is a table next to her where her drink is. She is pointed towards the direction of the table. But every time Drea spoke, she turned around, she looked at her, she acknowledged her. There was a couple of times where she tapped her. It was genuine, really good conversation between four successful black women. And before we go around and we add to the narrative of something is bad, this one is this way, we really need to do our own research because had I not listened, I would have just assumed, okay, it must have been something going on. I wouldn't have taken it and shared that information because I didn't witness it. But in my mind, I would have thought maybe they don't like each other. And it's okay because everybody's not for everybody. But that is not what happens. If you actually look at the podcast, you saw four successful black women having a great conversation, laughing, celebrating each other. But yet the narrative of there was some drama, black woman can't get along, she's a hater, that really, really, really, really needs to stop. I try not to play into that narrative. I'm gonna get off my soapbox about that, but if you have not seen Poor Minds podcast, you really need to check it out. Two phenomenal sisters doing their thing. I am happy for them and all the motivation that's following them right now. They're selling out of live shows. I recommend that you not only go listen to and look at the podcast with Savannah James and her business partner. I also recommend just check out the podcast. Also, Savannah James, her business partner, has a podcast. Check theirs out as well. I've added it to my list. A couple of car rides, I'm sure I'll catch up on a couple of episodes. So again, that is my soapbox for the week. I am going to go ahead and jump into the pour. And this week's pairing is one of my favorites. I am a huge fan of The House of Brown, which is the only black-owned winery in the state of California. It is a red blend. This is one in my top 10, definitely. If you are a wine drinker and you have not tried it, I highly recommend this one. And if you are not necessarily into uh full-body red wines, try it, but try it with the parents because I'm almost certain that you will also enjoy it. So Brown Estate Chaos Theory is a signature proprietary red blend combining varieties like Zinfandel, Carbonet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, and Barbera into a lush, full-body wine featuring dark berry, bacon spice, and supple tannins. It gives aromas of intense bouquets of cherries, red licorice, ripe black and red berries, white flowers, and fresh-cut herbs layered with secondary hints of Italian leather, tobacco, and cocoa. It has tasting flavors of blackberry, plum liquor, complemented by a mid-pallet note of clove, cinnamon, fresh vanilla, and a touch of earth or graphites. This wine will pair really well with charred or grilled ribeye steak, spicy pork ribs, wood-fired mushroom pizza, grilled seasonal vegetables, or a parmesan or garlic marinated portobello mushroom. That is our pairing of the week. Chalet is an occupational therapist who has spent the past 14 years helping others navigate life's challenges, regain independence, and rediscover confidence. For her, serving others is more than a career, it's a calling. That Heart for Service extends beyond her work through volunteering, mission trips, and a genuine love for connecting with people and hearing their stories. When she's not working or serving her community, Shalee loves traveling, reading, and spending time with family and friends. In this season of her life, she's learning what it means to listen to herself, trust her instincts, and make choices that honor her peace, even when those choices aren't easy. Chalée, welcome to Wine, Wisdom, and What Now. I am excited to have you, and I know it is going to be a great conversation. Always to get started, I ask the question: what season are you currently navigating?

SPEAKER_03 10:10

What season am I in? Like you mentioned in the bio, I'm in the season of listening to myself, and even though I don't know what I'm saying to myself sometimes, I'm still taking that time to sit and honor and give myself time and space to really figure out what it is that I'm saying so I can just, you know, have my peace about it.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

So for me, I know it took me a really long time to get there. I was always in survivor's mode, so sitting still and trying to think through it. It was really a hard thing to do. Have you always been this way, or was it something that made you this way?

SPEAKER_03 10:49

No, I am actually an anxious person. So I am the person, if I don't have the answer right away, then I am not settled. Or if I don't know what the outcome would be of said thing, then I'm anxious until I get there. So I'm learning to just relax, not make myself so worked up about it. And I'm still practicing.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

So when you say practicing, is it mind activities? What do you do to be okay in the moments when you're trying to figure it out?

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Just sitting still, like you mentioned, some mindfulness practices, whether that is reading something inspirational, whether it is sitting in silence or doing what I like to call my dumb activities. It could be the puzzle, it could be reading something mindless, something where I don't have to think too much, and it's just gonna come naturally.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Right. So I don't know. I don't know if that's a dumb activity because you're actually doing a puzzle. I go to TikTok, so you're actually using your mind while you're being not being anxious. I just go right down the rabbit hole. In your bio, we discuss peace. What does peace look like to you?

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Peace looks like um it's kind of hard to put into words. I just know the feeling I have when I'm at peace. I just feel settled, like my mind isn't racing, my heart isn't racing. I am just kind of easy breezy, like the wind. I'm just just going with it. And so that's what peace would look like. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

I I feel I feel the same way. It's a feeling, it's not something that you can actually touch. It's that feeling that when you're at peace, like you're not anxious in the moment, you are happy within, happy on the outside, dealing with life, without the anxiety of it all, and not stressed, because stress feels. So for me, that's what peace actually looks like.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

And I always feel like too, I'm holding my breath. And imagine just holding your breath and not having that exhale when I'm at peace about something. I don't know, I feel like I'm breathing so much better because I'm not so rigid, I'm just kind of relaxed and breathing.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

Normally, not holding my breath. I actually just heard someone talk about that. She was exercising, and when she realized that she didn't even get far and she was out of breath, and she couldn't understand why. And she realized in the moment she's holding her breath, which is actually a trauma response because you hold your breath because you are anxious for what's gonna happen next, that a lot of times we are holding our breath, don't even realize that we're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Okay, so in this journey of peace and making difficult decisions, what tools have you used? How can you offer assistance or advice to someone who may be on the journey but doesn't know where to start or just doesn't know what to do to get to her peaceful place?

SPEAKER_03 13:58

For me, I would always try to navigate it on my own. And as an occupational therapist, some of the strategies I use for myself, I would use with my patients, like finding something that brings you comfort, finding something that brings you joy, having time for yourself. But after a while, you get to a certain spot where the things you used to use, they don't work anymore. So then I took it upon myself to go to therapy and figure out how I could be better about how what I can add to my arsenal of tools. And I wish you would just give me a few things to add. So now I'm not in therapy anymore, but I have enough tools to know what I need to pull when I need it. So I would just encourage people to go to therapy. If you're not one to want to go to therapy, have a good support system, whether that's family, friends, but somebody who can be a sound judgment, not a yes person. You don't need a yes person, you need somebody who's gonna tell you, you tripping, or you need to relax, or it's okay, have your moment. Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

That comes with emotional maturity, though. Some people don't want to hear that they're wrong or they're tripping. They want that yes person, and that yes person is what feeds them, but they don't realize how unhealthy that is. Challenge me. I can't get better if I'm not challenged. Right. Yes. So through life, life experiences, was there a moment, an aha moment that made you say, I have to change, I have to do something different.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Yes, just a recent aha moment is getting engaged, meeting someone, getting engaged in 37 days, staying engaged for a few months, and we had a moment where I'm like, no, this isn't it. I can't do this. And I decided to walk away. And it was very hard, but I realized that I was repeating the same patterns of the past, and I had that uh hard. Like until I change, I'm gonna keep accepting what's coming. So this recent event made me have my uh huh, and I had to get up out of there.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

Did you celebrate yourself for making such an empowering decision for yourself?

SPEAKER_03 16:24

I did not. I had a lot of people say that I was courageous, I was brave, they wish they could have done something like that, but I'm proud of myself for sticking up for myself, but I have not celebrated myself for doing.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

You should, because there are so many people that wouldn't let pride get in the way, would let the thought of, but if I leave, will I find someone else? So I feel like I have to settle. So many people that would have gone through it, despite you seeing whatever signs you saw and saying, this is not for me, and making that decision. And it's a line in your bio, actually, that says, trusting your instincts and making choices that honors your peace, like you're truly living that. So that is something that you should celebrate because it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

It is smart, and I'm almost 42, and I don't have any kids. So some people are like, Why did you do that? Don't you want to have kids? And I'm always like, you know, it'll be in God's time, and whenever He wants me to have it, I will have it. And until then, I'm not willing to settle just for the sake of having a man. I can do what I want to do, travel, shop, go to dinner, whatever I want to do without feeling the burden of a relationship if it's not conducive to what I see for my future and what God wants me to have.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

Society puts so many demands on women, specifically black women, that oh, you have to do this by this age, or you have to do this by this age. And I don't know if people don't read the room or they just don't care or they don't realize that no one knows what you're already thinking. So why would I add pressure to that? Because obviously you thought it all through, but you still decided this wasn't for you. So there must have been a reason, and in that reason, if I truly care about you, I support your reason.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Took me two months to get to it, but feel it heavy. I felt heavy as the days would go on, and it just feels like somebody would just stand one elephant on me a day, and after 60 days, I can't move, I can't breathe, and I felt like that was the only way to have peace, to be able to breathe again, is to remove myself from the situation.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

And is this something that you would have done 10 years ago, or is this something else?

SPEAKER_02 18:53

No.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

I don't think I would have done this four or five years ago. It's just working on myself, seeing the value in myself. I know I'm a good person, but at the end of the day, sometimes I'm still hard on myself. My profession allows me or kind of makes me be a good person, put others before myself, and that's what I'm used to doing. Put other people's feelings before my own because I would rather suffer than to hurt somebody else.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Right, right. And I think that we're we are trained that way. It's almost like that. I don't understand it, and I've said it before. When kids are in the daycare and they're playing, and they're playing with their toy, and another little kid comes along and wants to take their toy, they're told they're selfish if they don't share their toy. Like, what why are we teaching that versus tell the other kid there's boundaries and you must wait until this person is done? So it's like we're trained that as a child, and that's how we go through life. And as black women, we take on more because once we go from that stage, then it's we have to give to everything and everybody else, we lose ourselves doing it, and it's just what society expects. Right, right. Exactly. So in doing this, what support do you have in when you're making these decisions, when you're on your journey for peace? Like what support do you have?

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Before I'm gonna lean on some good girlfriends or one of my aunts, I would lean on her, but I am learning to do it on my own. It's good to have somebody to go to, but I don't want to seem problematic taking things of people all the time. So I try to do it myself first. I may go once or twice versus all the time, like I used to. So now I'm just trying to do it myself. And I I think I'm doing okay. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

Just knowing that that too is part of that response of taking care of others and the one taking care of me. Just finding the balance of when to go. Because not always do we have to always go and seek assistance and use an ear, but knowing when to go and also knowing that if that person truly cares, it's not a bother. As much as you for others, they are wanting to do for you as well. At least that's what I find. Yes, yeah. Yeah, I'm a name there. And not to be a hypocrite, because I'm saying this from experience, because I am the one that would always give, but find it hard to receive. So it was always a struggle, and I still struggle with it, showing up and asking for help or saying, I need just because we are the way we are, because of how we were, raised, grew up, and life experiences, and we at some point in life stop, pivot, and take inventory of what really is good, what should we keep doing, what should we change? And even doing all of that, all the therapy, we're still never going to be perfect. So sometimes we're going to find where I know that I have a safe space that I can go share, ask questions, but sometimes I might feel like uh they're too busy or it's not important enough and downplay it just because I still struggle with asking for assistance.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

I don't like to ask anybody for anything. I don't care if it's I'm sick, if I need medicine, I want to do everything myself. And that is primarily because of being let down so many times in the past. I feel like if I take on the responsibility, if it didn't work, I know I gave it a thousand percent. And I tried Avenue A, B, C, D, and E to make sure it happened. And I don't know if whoever's trying to help me did that. Did you stop after one try? Or did you try A, B, C, D, and E? So over there, yeah. I'm just I just do everything myself. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

So is that something that is a belief of yours that you should do it yourself, or is that something that you are trying to find the balance with?

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I say trying to find a balance because it's almost like I trust people, but I don't trust them.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

So I trust people, but I don't trust people. Not like you don't trust people.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

I'm trying to find a balance in doing things, but it is hard. But I'm not so rigid with it, but more like important kind of stuff. And it's just like not as important and I don't I really don't care.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

Understood, understood. So if you had to have a conversation with a group of women who are Struggling with finding their peace, making the difficult decisions. The decisions that may not be for other benefits, but it is definitely for their own benefit. What piece of advice or word would you give to them? I would say respect.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

I would say respect. I feel like sometimes in a relationship, some respect could be lost, but in a sense, do you respect yourself? If your friend was experiencing this, would you tell her to stay? Would you tell her to go? So you have to talk to yourself like you would talk to one of your friends. Respect your boundaries as your partner respected what you say. And sometimes there can be some emotional manipulation going on. So you have to just really sit. And that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Yeah. And that comes with confidence. Confidence in yourself, confidence in your voice. And it's not something that happens overnight, but it's one of those things that you hate to wake up one day and realize I've sacrificed my entire life caring for everyone else when there was nothing in me. Because there are no do-overs. So I try to always take inventory. I try to always find ways of improvement. I'm never going to ever think that I'm perfect. And like you said, I am my hardest critic. So I am harder on myself than anyone else can possibly be. But I sit down and I have those real conversations with myself the same way I would with a close friend. And I'm able to say, all right, you know, you really need to start trusting in others and stop overextending yourself and allow someone to do for you. I'll have those conversations and I'm hard at it. So I might have to have a lot of several.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

And self-awareness is key. When you can look yourself in the mirror and say, hey, I messed up or I should have done this and not this. When you can really look yourself in the mirror and call yourself out, then I feel like that's when growth will start happening. And then it'll spill over into other relationships, intimate relationships, family relationships, work relationships, you will be able to pick out flaws and correct by yourself without anybody having to tell you.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

And so many people lack self-awareness. It's almost as uncommon as common sense. Just to hear someone, to witness someone and hear their view of themselves in that situation. Because that's not what happened. Okay, so in this new season, post-engagement, what are you excited about? Like, what are you looking forward to?

SPEAKER_03 26:29

I'm a hopeless romantic, so I would say I'm looking forward to trying again. If I meet somebody, I'm open to whatever life throws at me with that person. I'm not going to hold my last experience into the next one. Because in this in that situation, I can honestly say I did nothing wrong. And I can honestly say that with my whole heart that I did nothing wrong. I'm just looking forward to meeting, meeting someone nice, you know, still enjoying life, being able to be proud of the decisions I made, and of course, traveling some more. But yeah, just continuing to have peace and be proud of myself and brave and still looking for love.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

That that's something to look for. I'm excited about that for you. So if you were in this journey, what does he look like? If you had to describe him, what does he look like? Gosh, I used to have a type, but now I don't have it's just the feel. And that's what I'm saying. It's not just physical. How does he show up? What is it you want?

SPEAKER_03 27:38

He shows up making it safe for me to open up. That is my number one thing. I am a person. If I don't feel safe to communicate, I will shut down. It is not because I don't know what I need to say, it's because I don't feel safe enough to open up to say those things. So my partner is providing me with emotional maturity, a safe space to just be me. I'm loving, I'm goofy, I am spontaneous, and I want them to accept all of that. I'm willing to compromise, I'm not willing to settle. And I'm looking for someone that's family-oriented, and they're not going to try to one-huck me. I want us to be level and we grow together.

SPEAKER_04 28:27

That is a great list. I swear you're my kindred spirit because we think alone. That is probably the list I would repeat in a previous episode when we're talking about dating, and I said I found a notebook, a list that I created back in 2022, and it was this long list of things. And at the time, most of those things was on the list. I lost the notebook somewhere and never went back to the notebook. But it's odd or it's a it's weird when you come back years later and the list hasn't changed, and you've actually stayed true to what was on the list because those are really the things that you are looking forward to. For me, it's always about the character, it's always about feeling safe. It's always about how do you show up for me? If I gotta worry about you not having my best interest, then you're not for me.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Exactly, exactly. And I think too, with relationships, learning to fight fair. Are we having this massive argument for what reason? Let's fight fair, let's talk it out and get on one accord. So having someone I can safely have a bar community with.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

That's not gonna tear you down.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yeah, not gonna tear you down. Even even if it's in the moment, I still don't want anybody that's gonna say something you're gonna regret later. Right. Because obviously that was deep down inside of you. At some point, you wanted to say it. I feel like my list of what I don't want is so much longer. Just from past relationships, I pick up something with every relationship, like, oh no, I don't want to do that again. I'm not gonna do that again. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Okay. So in your journey through life, if you had to look back and say something to young Shaley, give her a word, let her know what's gonna happen in the future, what is it you would say to her?

SPEAKER_03 30:32

I would say be free. Be free. I have the phrase free spirit tattooed on me, and sometimes I live by that, but I feel like, and I don't know if this is a natural thing, the older I get, I'm not as free as I used to be. I've become more rigid or more anxious or worrisome, but it's for no reason. So if I could just tell little Chalet to be free to just live, I think that that's that's what I would still embody right now.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

I can see that. I think we go through seasons, and just from my experience, in my 20s, I was free. I picked up, packed up, moved states with two small kids, no job, no stable place to live. I did it. At 40, I would have never done that. That's just not I think that I became a little more rigid. Survivor's mode was heavy on me in the 40s, but then as I was approaching 50, I became free in a different way. I became free in a way where I was more empowered to live for me how I wanted to live without added pressures from the outside or internal. My freedom looked different now. It looks different now than it did at 20, but I'm free again. I don't have the anxiety and the tightness of this has to happen a certain way. Oh my God, what if it doesn't happen? The world's gonna come to an end. If I don't get it done, then what will I don't carry that anymore. And so I think that, and from what I hear from other women, is it happens in seasons. We do go through that. I'm 20, I'm free, nothing can happen to me. So I'm 35, I'm 40, and life has to look a certain way. I have these goals I gotta accomplish, I gotta do this by a certain time. So a 50 where you're like, F it, like this is what I'm gonna do. This is how it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

I'm not rushing again to 50, but I'm I'm ready to get to that point where I am like that. And I think I'm growing. I think I'm growing there. I think I'll be there before 50. Because again, this this last season of my life has prompted to want to honor myself, want to protect my peace, and by all means not let anybody disturb it because life is too short to feel that way, to not live in experience.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

Exactly. I agree 100%. Again, I don't want to look back and say, I wish I had or regret that I did. I'm gonna do all the things because even if I get it wrong, as long as I wake up the next day, I can just try again. But just not doing it at all, I I don't understand that, and I don't want to be that person that's not harming anyone but self.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

You're the only person that's gonna live your life, so you have to do it the way you want to do it.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

100% agree. Well, I greatly appreciate you for joining me. Give 500. I knew it would be a great conversation. Is there any last words you want to leave us?

SPEAKER_03 33:43

I want to tell any woman that's struggling in a relationship, even though you may not know what's on the other side, if you are not happy, if you have a small gut feeling, please, please, please listen to it because you don't want to be three months, three years, 30 years down the line and wish you did something to change it. So listen now, move now, no matter what that looks like, and I guarantee that you will be okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

I'm over here stomping my feet at that because that is one thing that's on point. And we always talk about faith, but we don't practice it as much. Because if we can't see it or we don't know it, then we're scared of it. And we make decisions based on that versus true faith of I don't know what's on the other side of this, but I know this right here is not it.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Mama always saying you just have that's faith the size of a mustard seed, just a little bit. You don't need a big thing, and you don't need to know what it's gonna look like. Just if you have a small amount of faith, then everything is gonna be okay. And I I truly believe that.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Amen. That is I live by that. Just my life itself, I've had to live by that. And it is it's part of what's freeing is knowing that I don't know what's going to happen, but I trust you. I trust you. We're gonna wake up, we're gonna do the things, and as long as I get another day, if it wasn't right yesterday, we'll fix it today. Exactly. So again, I thank you for joining. It's been a wonderful conversation. If you have any questions for myself or any of the guests, I invite you to email me questions at winewisdomwhatnow.com. I am always always open for conversation. I want to engage with you as much as I engage with the guests. This again is a podcast for black women sharing their lived experiences. So if you have a story you want to share, I promise there is somebody that wants to receive it. If you want to be a guest, send the email to questions at winewisdomwhatnow.com. We have a short process. We will connect 15 minutes on a discovery call and get you scheduled to come share your story. Thank you for joining me. If no one else tells you, I hope you have an amazing week, and I look forward to seeing you next Tuesday. We release 6 a.m. every Tuesday. Have an amazing week.