SPEAKER_00 1:03

Welcome to Wine, Wisdom, and What Now. I am your host, Yolanda Holliday, and I thank you for joining me. If this is your first time here, welcome. This is the podcast for us, by us, everyday lived experiences of black women over the age of 40. And if you are returning, welcome back, and I thank you for your continued support. Before we pour, let's talk about how we show up for black businesses. How we show up when there is a new business, and maybe they're trying to get it together, or maybe we just don't agree with what they're serving or the prices. Why is it that we so happily get online and bash the business? What does that do? Outside of our community, we receive enough criticism that you would think inside of our community there would be some grace. And I'm the first to say that everything isn't for everyone. The baby just opened up a restaurant here in Charlotte, North Carolina. The restaurant is called No Knife Chicken and Waffles. I've heard very little about how good the food is, or if it's not good, but what I've heard a lot is it's so expensive. It's too expensive. $50 for waffles with two sides and a protein. If it's not for you, just don't go. Why do you have to spend your energy bringing down a black establishment? I don't hear the same negativity when we're being charged $50 a hookah in some of these establishments that are not black-owned. Or if you're trying to do bottle service for $275 when the bottle is only $20 in the liquor store. But when it's a new, but maybe not new, but when it is a black-owned establishment, I find that we show up as our harshest critic. Let's leave that noise for the outside. If it's not for you, it's just not for you. And the sad thing is, I've not heard anyone say, Oh, the food was awful or the food was amazing. I don't mind spending money if it is good quality. If it's not for you, just don't go. Don't participate. But please think about how it looks when we are online bashing our own. It just doesn't look good. It doesn't. It's disappointing. Okay, now let's get into our pour. Today's pour is Theopatra's Couvet Blanc from Theopolis Vineyards, a black-owned winery founded by Theodora Lee. This is a bright, refreshing white wine with notes of pineapple, honeysuckle, lemongrass, bacon spice, and vanilla with a nice creamy finish. And for the food, I'd pair this with grilled shrimp, crab cakes, roasted chicken, a creamy pasta, or brie with fresh fruit and crackets. I chose this wine for today's conversation because our guest, Tammy, is in a season of discovering who she is beyond the career and titles that define so much of her life. And I think there's something beautiful about giving ourselves permission to evolve, to explore new interests, try something different, and ask, what's next for me? So pour yourself a glass. Today we're talking about reinvention, possibility, and creating a life that feels aligned with the woman you're becoming. Cheers, sis. And if you have tried this, let me know what you think in the comments. And if you go out and purchase it, you can order it directly from their vineyard, Theopolis Vineyards. Let us know. Come back and let us know what you think. Today's guest, Tammy O'Wisby, is a proud mom of three GG to two grandchildren and a woman who believes it's never too late to reinvent yourself. After more than two decades in corporate leadership, she's now building an online business while exploring what's next for herself. Passionate about empowering women in personal growth, Tammy reminds us that our identity is bigger than a job title. And sometimes the biggest shifts begin when we give ourselves permission to ask, what's next for me? So welcome, Tammy.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Hello, hello everyone. And first of all, I want to start out by saying thank you so much, Yolanda. Thank you for this opportunity. I truly feel honored. I mean, this is such a big deal for me. So let me just relax and get over the you know the scaries and all. But again, though, I really do thank God for it. So I'm just gonna just tell what I know to be the raw truth right now about the season that I'm in. As Yolanda has mentioned, almost 30 years of building a career in corporate. And after uh the loss of my job, I am now in this season of, okay, God, what's next? And that's exactly how I said it. And for a long time, I was one of those women that kind of thought that your identity and everything about you is attached to what corporate says that you are, your successes, your accomplishments, whatever that may look like, right? But I've had to learn that I am someone without that corporate career. I am worth, I am value, I am all that God says that I am. But you know, that's easier said than done. Because oftentimes we wonder, well, what does worth look like? What does value look like? What does success look like? And, you know, we have a habit of making it look like a cookie cutter, you know, but needless to say, my success is not going to look like Yolanda's success, and vice versa, right? So I've learned to, first of all, as women, we have to sit in the moment, digress, and allow yourself to say, hey, look, you know what? I can't control what has happened. It happened, and there is nothing in this world that I will ever be able to do to change that day in time. It's history. It's over with. Now, that's a hard pill for many of us to chew and to swallow, or you know, but it's it really is truth, right? And so you have to take a moment where you say to yourself, okay, God, this didn't get by you, this didn't shock you or surprise you. You saw all of this long before I saw it. And I just know without a shadow of a doubt, although the way has not been totally clear, exactly those words I said is exactly where I am. Nothing that has happened to me has ever gotten by God. He was not shocked, and he's still not shocked about anything that's going on in regard to my career shifting, the loss of the job, and all the things. So I'm at this place now where it's like I'm a woman of a certain age. I'm proud. I'm a proud 58-year-old black woman, okay? I'm gonna say that first of all.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Black was not cracked for that.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Okay, and thank you. And I'm gonna say I am grateful for my career. I am grateful for every opportunity, every door, every promotion, all of the things, leading teams, all of the accomplishments. I am not a person who is bitter with corporate or toward corporate. There are some things about that space that I could kind of talk about but do without, but for the most part, I am grateful. But I've also come to this realization that it's okay to say I outgrew the space. You know, long before the separation happened, if I'm just gonna be totally honest, the nudge was already there. I had already outgrown many facets of my career. I had already outgrown certain roles and responsibilities and titles. But me, like so many, we get comfortable. We we, you know, we look at and say, oh my God, this is this is a great opportunity, whether you're making six figures or not, or you've got a great compensation package. And then we began to feel this sense of guilt for like, oh God, I should be grateful that I have all of this. And two things can be true. You can be grateful for your career, but understand that it's okay to desire to have something different, and that's basically kind of like the overarching situation for where I am. Now, how I'm navigating through all of this, it's not easy because I came into the realization of something just this past weekend, and I want to share this. And I know I'm not the only woman out here, but as a child, I didn't know my identity. Okay, I was never told things in my parents' home, and it's not to take anything away from that home, okay. I want to start by saying that, but I was not like necessarily told, like, um, you're intelligent, you can do this, you can do that, you can accomplish this and accomplish that. So a lot of the identity of who I am today, it was grown through or it became a live, breathing identity or a personality after receiving the corporate accolades, after obtaining the college degree, after receiving the promotions, and kind of climbing the ladder. That's when all the identity began to form shape in my life. And so I believe this is why for me, and I don't believe I'm the only woman out here that would be able to say, that's me too. Like many folks, especially women, we get this identity when we have children, when we get married, and in no particular order. And as I always say, a woman's worth is not defined by being married and or having children. I know that's what society wants us to believe, Yolanda, but I'm sorry. I'm just not one of those that says that's the win all be all. That's just the way it is, and there's no exceptions. No, I think that's very unfair to put that type of pressure on women for them to believe that. Because I know that God knows best, and for every one of us, there's already this journey that's been carved and it's what it is. And it doesn't oftentimes include even a husband, a spouse, a mate partner, whatever, because this is where value and worth comes in for who we are outside of what anyone else says that we are.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

So, as I said, it's been tough, but where I am right now is I've made up my mind and I stand ten toes on this. I cannot say that I will ever walk back into a corporate position. I don't know. And I am now learning how to not concern myself so much of pleasing others. Their opinions of where I am does not matter. I built the resume, and I have the receipts to support the resume, the successes to support the resumes, the accolades, the titles, the promotions, all of that is there, and everything served a purpose in my life as it was happening. But all of that is just a part of my journey, and it is now a part of my past. I had to take some time to sit and embrace what had happened, but also not allow myself to be lost in the sauce, so to speak, and to understand that whatever God has for me, because I feel like I have a ton of value left, a ton of uh work ability inside of me. But I do believe that it's time that I fulfill my purpose. Now, some people may say, Well, Tammy, how do you know you were not fulfilling your purpose then? I'm not saying that, but let me just say what I know to be true on this part, okay? Oftentimes, such as myself, we will take positions because it's a good paycheck. It's a nice title. It's something that sometimes people will say, Well, it fell in my lap, or I went to college, I got my degree, and this was the opportunity. This is a position that came about after my internship, or whatever that looked like, or oh my God, I know God opened that door and I got that job. And true enough, true enough, I'm not taking anything away from doors opening, doors closing. All of us, again, we have these journeys that God has already set for us. And all of those experiences and job opportunities and titles and things, those are all part of our makeup. All of those are part of Tammy's talents and the skills that I was able to accomplish and learn and earn, all right? But sometimes God will allow things to slow us down.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

At the appointed time, I'm I just am a strong believer, he will slow us down when he's ready for us to make a hard pivot in life. What's the difference in a hard pivot and a soft pivot? Well, to me, a soft pivot sometimes can be like, for example, the fact that I relocated from one state to another state for an opportunity. Still within the corporate space, still within the same type of industry, so to speak, title and all. It was just another layer that I wanted to add to my resume. All right, that's a soft pivot. A hard pivot, in my opinion, is when God says, be still. We got to talk about it for a moment. I'm ready to turn you in a different direction. I'm ready for you to make a hard stop in the road. And so I am assured this is where I am in my life right now. I have taken time to read more, I have taken time to journal more. I have taken time to really ask myself, Sammy, what makes you feel good? What is the one thing that you did well and you would still enjoy doing? And I'm gonna say this. I feel like what happens to a lot of us is that we truly do get burnout. People try to say there's no such thing as corporate burnout. Some people say there is. Okay. I do know, I don't, I won't, we don't have to call it corporate burnout, but I will say I was burnt out, exhausted, mentally just going and going and going and going. And there came this point now to where I have all the time to think. And what I have realized, Yolanda, is I still am a very ambitious woman. I still enjoy helping, I enjoy inspiring, mentoring, I enjoy bringing what I offer, my knowledge, my wisdom to the table. And I'm not afraid to work, but I just know that work looks different for me now. And I am one of those women that was programmed to follow the corporate path, you don't veer off, you don't even consider building anything for yourself. How dare you think that way? Because we were led to believe retirement, pension, and all of those things would be readily available, 401k and all of that. But I'm just here to let anyone know, and anyone that may be listening under the sound of my voice, please do not be misled. I don't want to use words that are too strong here for people to be like, oh my God, but it really is a corporate game. It's theatrics, guys. It really is a part, a role that you're applying for, you're auditioning for. Many people now say you truly cannot be your authentic self in the workplace. You have to fit the role. That's the person that you are. And so, yeah, absolutely. So, right now, I'm just like, I have taken some time to sit with the fact that for a while there, I was saying, so Tammy, what's next? I've asked myself and I've identified some things, and I will say this. I remember as a young girl, I'm gonna share this with you guys. I wanted to be a journalist. That was my childhood dream. I wanted to be a newscaster. The reason that I did not take that route, and I'm a 60s baby, born in the late 60s, is a lot of people would say, well, first of all, black girls don't do TV things, and then secondly, I don't think they make a lot of money. So it was all these things to try and discourage me from going that route. I'm gonna be honest. But I have often said, I would love to have a talk show, I would love to have my own this and that or participate. And so when Yolanda brought this offer, I was just all over it because it's something that I honestly felt like, okay, this is your chance to see. Do you like this? Do you think you would enjoy this? I could name a few black women that I actually admire and I've admired them for years, and one being Tamron Hall. She's from Texas, I'm from Texas. Back in the day, before I let all this gray, I wore black and I wore my hair very similar. And believe it or not, when I was living in Houston, folks, I remember someone saying, Are you a relative to Tamron Hall? I'm like, No, I'm not a relative to Tamron Hall, but I like her laugh. And so I have, I will always be in her corner of, oh my God, I'm so proud of her, and just knowing where she started from and how all that looked for her. So that's a little bit about how I'm navigating right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Okay. I have questions, of course. Okay because you said so many things that I think so many of us can relate to. I'm just gonna start from I agree with one thing that you said. A lot of us don't know who we are. We are almost groomed to the way we're led. Go to school, get a job, have a career, have a family, retire, all the things of whoever was influencing us at the time was feeding into us. So at the point when you realize, okay, I've been working this career, but maybe that's not necessarily what I've always wanted to do because now I don't even know the things that I enjoy. What did that journey of rediscovery or just pausing and identifying that you didn't truly know who you were look like?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

So I had an aha moment when my pastor was teaching uh a series this past weekend on relationship ology. And he began to talk about the family. And as we all know, the family is the foundation. And being one of those girls that was raised in the church, literally raised out of my mother's womb up to where I am today. And he just hit on so many pain points, and it had already kind of it in other words, it solidified where I along the path that I had already been thinking. And I'm the eldest child, two younger sisters, got married extremely young, had to raise three children after failure of the marriage that led to divorce. And I don't, I don't say it as a bad thing. Some things just happen, and you just you keep it moving, you grow from it and you learn the lessons and keep moving. So I I had to take time to ask myself, Yolanda, like Tammy, who are you? And and close off all the noise, close off all the distractions. Definitely not comparing myself to anyone because comparisons is the thief of all joy, and I am not supposed to look like the next lady, and she's not supposed to look like me. I am unique. There is a unique fingerprint about me from head to toe, and I All the things in between. So learning to embrace that and trying to honestly unlearn the things that I was programmed to believe. Some may have been true, but many were not. It was honestly, we we say programmed, you said it absolutely, I mean, spot on, like this is what you do. And then being an eldest child, I had a lot of responsibility put on me that I didn't ask for, no problem. But it was just the dynamics of the family. It was just the way that you were taught, and this is the pattern you followed. So a lot of us, including myself, we were just not allowed to think for ourselves, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

It does.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

When you get married, a lot of times I wasn't, you know, he valued my opinion, but it didn't have a lot of weight. So there have been times where I've had to say, listen to your voice. You don't need everyone's opinion, Tammy. Come on, you are capable of deciding for yourself what's best for you. So listening to my own voice, understanding I don't need permission, and just embracing who I see in the mirror.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Right, right. And that's a journey. A lot of people think, oh, I'm just gonna wake up like that one day. And that is definitely not how it happens. And a lot of times when you hear, if you're going through that season and you're trying to figure it out, and you hear someone telling their story, you may not hear what happens along the way because it's not always pretty. There's gonna be tears, there's gonna be anger, frustration, you're going to feel less than because why is it I am not at that point? Everyone's journey looked different, but we all have to go through the journey. I don't know. I haven't met that one woman who has had it all together from day one.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I have an idea.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

More times than not, I'm meeting meeting women and we're talking about our journey because not saying that what we were told when we were younger was wrong. At the time, it was we did the best we knew how to do, and those that were influencing us told us the best or guided us the best that they knew how. And as you learn and grow and get your own lessons, you start picking up new thoughts and you start doing new things, and then you start developing who you are. And then it's at that point you have to give yourself grace that maybe you might make the wrong term. But as long as you wake up tomorrow, get up and try it again. And so I think that a lot of women who are in that process get so frustrated because they feel like, why am I not there yet? But we all have to go through that journey, and that's what makes the other side so much better because we appreciate that journey.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

And and I'm gonna interject something there because I want to talk if you if you will allow it, about how some of those days may look. Please, you know, after losing my job, I had a meltdown. I had to seek therapy, I had to cry, I had to see the doctor, I had to figure out, I had to tell myself, like, what am I gonna do now? I mean, this was I had to say the words. This was my world. This is, I built this. I with my hands, and they say bless, sweat, and tears, but like all the sacrifices. So everything just begins to run back. It's like a recording. I don't know if anyone's ever experienced this, but it's like you see your whole life go. And then every day you wake up and it's like, ugh. And there were days, literally, Yolanda, I would say, Lord, just let me go to bed. I'm just ready to go to sleep. Because I tried to sleep away the pain, sleep away the disappointment. And I'm being very honest. That is real, that's real, guys, ladies. It's nothing to be ashamed of, you know, to because one thing that I know after working with my therapist on was the fact that you don't even know where you fit in. Because where you fit is no longer there. So now you're trying to find where you fit. And let me say this: don't feel guilty if you wake up one day and you don't feel like showering, you don't feel like eating, you don't feel like doing anything. You barely made it to the bathroom, brush your teeth, and if you didn't do that, okay, you're in your house. I don't, hey, I'm not here to tell you. There is no right or wrong way. You have to allow all of those emotions to surface. Now, what I always tell everyone is, and I had to tell myself, you will not sit in it for too long. This is what I say, yes. You gotta snap and get yourself together, yep, and and not feel guilty if you have to do a Netflix day just to keep your sanity, or you need to do a read-a-book day. Now, I'm gonna share something that was shared with me. My therapist said, You will start today with a schedule. This will be the last day that you no longer have a schedule. Okay. I had to set an alarm to wake up every morning no later than 7 a.m. I had to get up, I had to take a walk, I had to go to the gym, I had to prepare breakfast, I had to put myself on a schedule. I had to block time to do job search, applications, fun things. I had to ask a girlfriend, can we meet for a coffee? Can we meet for a glass of wine? I was put on a schedule because all of these things helped to keep, first of all, your sanity, and they just helped to keep you at an even pace and life balanced. Because, honey, you'll lose it. And I had to write it all down. And when I go back for my next session, I had to report to class. I had to literally report to class, Yolanda. Like, she, okay, Tammy, how did it look? What did you do? There was no sleeping till 12 noon and then getting up. And no, she was very adamant about I'm putting you back on a schedule as though you were in that office, and all of those things help to save my life.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

It's important because it's easy one to fall into a deep depression where you just don't want to pretty much are giving up. But then also, like you said, you may have those days, and you have to allow yourself to have those days. Don't sit in them, but when you're you're grieving, you're grieving the you you knew, you're grieving the job you had, you're grieving the comfort that you once had because it's a very uncomfortable place trying to figure out what's next. So allow yourself those days, just don't sit in it. I think you I might need your therapist number because that is the best advice that I've heard. Make a schedule, get up, do the things, keep living life. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

And and like I said, she even suggested, hey Tam, I understand finances are low, but you have to have a coffee bar day. You know, you have to have a day where you may go have a lunch somewhere. Ask a good girlfriend, can we just meet for a glass of wine? And understanding this, you're gonna speak to those friends. You don't have to tell everyone that you're unemployed, but one or two of your really good girlfriends will need to know this. And if your financial situation allows, some people will be like, Well, I need to take a weekend trip or a staycation. She her suggestion was that you got to get out of the four walls, you can't be in these four walls every day of the week, even if you were someone that worked remote, and maybe you did stay at home, you still, because that's been taken away, you got to take the grieving process and go start creating something for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Right, right. So if there is a woman right now who is, whether it's she just lost her job, she just ended her marriage, she just doesn't feel right within herself, what advice would you give her?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

So, first of all, I'm gonna tell you this, and I'm gonna look right at you and tell you this. Girlfriend, you're loved. You may not feel loved right now, you may not even feel seen, you may not even feel understood. But one thing I can tell you for certain, God knows exactly who you are. He loves you, he knows the journey, he saw everything, he he already knew it was about to unfold. Like I said earlier, nothing gets past him, he's not shocked. So let's start there. Be transparent with him, okay? Just say, I can't do this. I'm lost, I'm hurting, whatever it is, every emotion, and don't be ashamed to say it. I mean, don't be ashamed to say every emotion that you're feeling about the situation. The anger, the unforgiveness, the bitterness, the the need to want to get them back. They need to pay for what they did to me. How dare they do that? Bring all of that, and then I want you to know there is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing you could have done differently that would have shifted that situation. That was out of your control. Because I know you I can see you sitting there. Well, if I had loved him more, if I had had more sex with him, if I'd have lost the weight, if I'd have gained the weight, if I'd have worn my nails different, hair different, done the makeup different. I don't know, because I know us women, we nitpick everything about ourselves. There's nothing that you could have done differently. Let's start there, especially with marriage. Because one of the things that I've had to learn, oftentimes there is something within the individual who wanted out of the marriage. I'm gonna say that again. There was something within the individual who wanted out of the marriage, it wasn't you. Now, people say, well, it takes two to tango and you done something wrong. Okay. Sometimes that may be true, but I'm gonna tell you something. If folks would be more honest and transparent, the he or the she that wanted out were dealing with their own internal insecurities, desire for more, desire for whatever you were not willing, and or were not willing and felt guilty or ashamed to bring it to you to understand. I can tell my mate this. I love him, I love her. I should be able to say what I'm feeling, but without judgment. All right, and that's where some people get messed up. Okay, the job, corporate, first of all, they make business decisions every day. Those business decisions will affect an employee in a good way andor a bad way. Nothing can change the decisions they make every day. And I don't care, your loyalty won't keep you there. I don't care what you do. Because the reason for that is that's their job, that's their company, that's their dream. You can't, nothing. I'm telling you, loyalty. I'm a team player, I implement, I do this, I do that, I stay late, I do, I'm an overachiever, I'm a high performer. Go ahead, do it all, knock yourself out. Go ahead, and when you get in the hospital or when, God forbid, you lose your life. Trust me, they'll have someone sitting in that seat within a few days. There's nothing. So think about what makes sense for you. Bring the best energy at all times to the relationship, the work relationship, or the personal relationship, but always know you can't control what the other person is thinking and or feeling about you. Do your best, girl.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

I love it. You have given so much great information and motivation to someone who just does not know. How can we support you? Where can we find you? What are you working on? What do you need from us?

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Oh, you're so sweet, Yolanda. Okay, so I actually am building a personal brand. It's called Becoming Her. I've created my very first digital product, and it is a guided journal. It's a prompted, guided journal, and I have various prompts inside of the journal that actually allows the woman to slow down and to ask those questions of herself every day. What would my future self? What can I say to my younger self? What wins do I want to celebrate? What successes? What would what did I do today that I felt like, wow? So it's not just your everyday journal where you you do, right? For sure, but it kind of gives you those thought-provoking questions that becoming her, because here's the thing a lot of people like we were talking, Yolanda saying, people don't know their identity, where they start, where they are. And so this journal will allow you to say, okay, and then what are your what are you grateful for today? And what are your intentions for tomorrow? I actually have a stand store. I've also decided that I'm going to offer various programs for the women who are saying to themselves, I love my career, I can't afford to just quit. But you know what, Tammy? I do need to start building something else for myself. So this will give you the opportunity to tap into digital andor affiliate marketing. You will learn like how to create a digital product. It, you know, the program, the modules will teach you uh Canva and teach you if you want to land a brand deal like UGC. Do you want to become like, okay, I want to learn Amazon Review? You know, so various programs that'll be there in my stand store as well. So I would just love, I'm gonna say this, I would love for other women, especially those that look like me, to take life into your hands and say, you know what? I deserve to have the life that I desire, and I am capable of building the life that I desire. Corporate served this purpose, corporate is great. I love corporate and the things, but I can't afford to lose my identity within that space again because at any given time, if they cut us off, what do you have left?

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Right, right. So again, I thank you greatly for joining for your transparency, for just your joyful heart and open mind and spirit and sharing all of the information. I will share the link to the stand store. I'm sure this will benefit some women needed to hear this message today. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Thank you, Yolanda.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Again, this was another great conversation, the information shared, just the full transparency and authenticity that these women bring forward. I so appreciate it. And I appreciate you for staying, for listening, for joining the conversation, whether it's through the DMs, whether it's through leaving a comment. Thank you. If you are looking to find out more information about the podcast or previous episodes, our website is www.winewisdomwhatnow.com. The Curated Circle has launched. It is there for us. It is a space for black women. It is our safe space to come together. There's events, there's conversations, there's expert discussions, there are resources, all the things you would need can be found at the Curated Circle. To find more information, go to the website www.curated living by yh.com and click on the curated circle link. There you can find all the information you need to join the community. I greatly appreciate your support. Without you, there will be no us. I appreciate you. If you have any questions, if you think you have a story that you would like to share, I promise you someone, someone needs to hear your story. Email me questions at winewisdomwhatnow.com. If no one has told you you are doing great, give yourself grace. I want you to have the best week possible. We meet here every Tuesday morning at 6 a.m. There is a new episode released every Tuesday at 6 a.m. Have an amazing weekend.